Keira Davidson (00:23):
Hi, and welcome to the Tech SEO podcast, which is hosted by myself, Keira Davidson, a senior SEO executive at SALT. This episode is with Sören, the CEO of Audisto.
Keira Davidson (00:38):
It’s great having you joining me today. I can’t wait to get to talk about automated testing. Let’s kick things off by seeing how you are.
Sören Bendig (00:47):
Hey, Keira. Great to be here. Yeah, I’m fine. It’s really great weather here. So finally, the summer is kicking in, at least in Germany.
Keira Davidson (00:56):
Have you had the same issue with us where we’ve had rain for weeks upon weeks and then we finally had a mini heat wave?
Sören Bendig (01:05):
Yeah. We recently had a heat wave as well. So that was quite a few days.
Keira Davidson (01:13):
That’s lovely. What always happened is, we’re always like, “Oh, we really want some sun.” And then when we finally get the sun, we’re like, “Oh, it’s too hot.”
Sören Bendig (01:22):
Yeah. There’s no right or wrong weather. I mean, for us, at least it’s a topic. If you’re in a place like Singapore or something, the weather is not a conversation topic.
Keira Davidson (01:33):
Really?
Sören Bendig (01:34):
In Europe, everyone is talking about the weather because it’s too hot, it’s too wet, it changes all the time. And if you’re in a place like Singapore, they have either it’s dry or the monsoon, it’s raining, but the temperatures are more or less the same. The weather is not a conversation topic, interestingly.
Keira Davidson (01:51):
That’s crazy. I’d never have known that. Thank you.
Keira Davidson (01:58):
So you’re a CEO now, but I’m assuming that’s not how you started in the industry. How long have you been in SEO, so to speak?
Sören Bendig (02:10):
Oh, I think meanwhile it’s around more than 15 years or something. I mean, SEO started for me back then when I was still studying and then I wrote my own blocks, then realized, okay, if you put in the time, do some research about the topics that your readers are interested in, then the articles you write are much more successful. So that’s how it all started way back then.
Sören Bendig (02:38):
And then on the way to Audisto, I did different things. I was the CEO of SEOlytics. That was a rank checker for enterprise business. We sold that company to SISTRIX.
Keira Davidson (02:50):
Okay.
Sören Bendig (02:52):
And in between, I was also working for a web analytics SaaS business. Yeah. And now it’s Audisto, and Audisto started 10 years ago now. This year is our Jubilee.
Keira Davidson (03:09):
Oh, that’s amazing.
Sören Bendig (03:09):
So, 10 years ago it started and it started as a technical website crawler. So the basic tool that we offer since the beginning is a technical SEO and structure analysis software.
Sören Bendig (03:24):
And yeah, since three years we also operate second solution, so to speak, but it’s connected with the crawler, but focusing on the automated technical testing and monitoring. And from the business side of things, Audisto is focused on enterprise clients. So our software is scalable, can easily analyze half a billion URLs or more. So we focus really enterprise side of things, not the SMB things.
Keira Davidson (03:58):
Oh, that’s really interesting. And when you are doing automated testing for large sites, do you use like CI/CD to do that? So it’s basically continuously checking before deployment.
Sören Bendig (04:17):
No, there’s different ways, how to, how to do testing and monitoring. And we can elaborate on that in some minutes, but basically for us, the testing part is based on the crawler because we have the crawler expertise.
Keira Davidson (04:34):
Okay.
Sören Bendig (04:35):
So the technical SEO crawler is the basis for the data that the testing and monitoring analyzes.
Keira Davidson (04:46):
Oh, cool.
Sören Bendig (04:46):
And from the different ways you can do testing, the thing that many do is they do manual testing. Everyone is check. If you check a client website, that’s manual testing, so to speak. And you can do that. It’s really great for realizing new problems. I mean, no software will ever tell you all the issues that you have, so usually you need to realize it beforehand. But it’s expensive and it does not scale.
Sören Bendig (05:15):
And the whole testing topic in different industries, they utilize it more and more since several years, but then an SEO, you know how it is, the SEO specialist is rare. Everyone wants more SEO specialists, especially technical SEO focused specialists. And the time is expensive and people are checking for titles and snippets and whatever, which really does not make sense if you have like a large eCommerce website. No one in their mind is writing all the titles, with a human.
Keira Davidson (05:55):
Yeah.
Sören Bendig (05:55):
You develop and automate where you say, “Okay, this is the category. This is the product.” And then you combine and then create some things that you can scale through the whole platform. And then maybe for the most important products, you fine tune it manually or something.
Sören Bendig (06:15):
But that’s why we developed the testing and monitoring, because from the technical SEO perspective, we have some clients, they doing a technical SEO audit, and then they realize, “Okay, there’s a lot of stuff. It’s broken. We need to fix it.” And then they fix it and it takes them two months. And afterwards, then they just skip it.
Sören Bendig (06:41):
And half a year or year later, then they come again and then do another audit and then realize, “Oh, there’s a lot of stuff that’s broken.” And maybe in between, they realize, “Oh, stuff is broken and it costs us money so maybe we need to do something.” And that’s an approach where we say, “Yeah, but that’s so shortsighted.”
Sören Bendig (07:01):
And we have some clients that did not have any safeguards at all. And if it’s a good running shop, then it’s really easy to have €50,000 or €100,000 with some faulty changes that no one wanted but no one realized quickly enough.
Keira Davidson (07:22):
Yeah. So would you say that you are able to catch issues earlier and potentially roll out changes before they become very large on scale?
Sören Bendig (07:36):
Yeah. Well, the idea behind the automated testing is that if you compare it to a one-time audit, you do a continuous testing on your site. So it’s not once a month or something, but it’s continuous. So if you would do this, then you would analyze yourself 24/7 more or less, or at least once a day.
Sören Bendig (08:03):
Let’s take it easy and say, “Okay, I want to analyze it once a day.” And then maybe I have some issues where I say, “This is a critical issue. If this is happening to my shop or to my site, I lose money immediately. So if there’s just like one faulty modification, I need to know immediately.” So that’s the two ways you might to want to know it.
Sören Bendig (08:26):
And compared to, sometimes I do an audit or something that you want to not realize there’s changes retrospectively, after the change happened. You want to realize the issues. So, if I had realized, “Oh, three days ago, our content management system unfortunately changed all the titles and all the snippet to some default text.”
Sören Bendig (08:57):
So now Google starts indexing lorem ipsum, whatever. That’s really easy example, really simple, but it happens, and most systems do not have safeguards against something like this.
Sören Bendig (09:12):
So if someone moves into automated testing, then you have companies that already use unit tests, integration tests, and they have some test solutions that they combine with the development process itself, which are great to test for program logic, can also test more complex stuff. But they sometimes don’t scale well because a developer has to write a test for every different type of page and every different product and stuff like that. And usually writing tests is not the favorite part of every developer and developing time is short as well.
Sören Bendig (09:56):
So yeah, we write some tests. Yeah, it’s working, but yeah. So we sometimes see that it makes less sense that the developer writes his own tests because we write a test that works exactly for the ticket, what he did in the programming.
Sören Bendig (10:15):
Then some companies then have QA people working on testing. But then again, it’s often manual work. Sometimes they do some user testing, like they use something like Selenium or something to test is the login process working and stuff like that. And this is approaches you need to do anyway. What we do or someone else can do with a crawler, it will never change this process because you need to do this function test anyway.
Sören Bendig (10:44):
But the beauty how you can do crawler based testing is that it is very flexible. Everyone can run it at any time, so to speak. And because the crawler can analyze what the final user sees, this also means that, in the end, you can also test stuff like logic and code or the database content or something.
Keira Davidson (11:11):
Oh, cool.
Sören Bendig (11:12):
I mean, it’s a no brainer you should test it at a different part of your process, but often the process is not there or you do not have the solution stuff.
Sören Bendig (11:23):
My favorite example from eCommerce is in incorrect price in the database. Of course you should have some kind of logic to analyze for this within your own system, but many don’t. So if we talk about eCommerce, as I say, yeah, you do not want to offer a product for €0 or something. And everyone is laughing at us, like, yeah, but that’s not happening. But it is.
Sören Bendig (11:48):
And my highest example was a B2B shop. They were selling some compressors, and they had a compressor for €5,000 in the shop and they were selling it for €0.
Keira Davidson (12:01):
Wow.
Sören Bendig (12:01):
But you had to pay €5 postal fee because you didn’t manage to get to the €50 fee where they would send it to me for free. Or you have some marketing bundles where the shop system is not smart enough after the bundle is entwined to correct it. And then you have a byproduct you’re still selling for €0.
Sören Bendig (12:26):
We have one SEO, he ordered just to try it out 50 times the €0 product and the system sent it out. So he had 50 of the product at home.
Keira Davidson (12:36):
Wow.
Sören Bendig (12:37):
It was not the compressor. It was a marketing item that cost €3 or something. But nonetheless, the systems are stupid often and that’s-
Sören Bendig (12:51):
So that’s why with crawler, at least you can test for everything that the final user sees or operates with.
Sören Bendig (13:02):
You can leave the SEO bubble rather quickly. Also test for a price is not a SEO topic or is there a buy button or something like that.
Sören Bendig (13:13):
But sometimes it can help to look into other topics. We have some SEO teams where they realized, “Yeah, we don’t want to do the testing, manual testing, again and again and again.” And they realized, “Okay, we can automate it. And we would love to do it,” but they had no idea how to get the budget for it. And then they looked what other topics do they have that can impact the business, and then they realized, “Okay, we’re selling products where we are legally obliged to write certain things in the product description.”
Sören Bendig (13:47):
And then they went to the legal department and asked, “Yeah, and last year, how many legal issues did we have where this was not properly done? And what did it cost?” And legal department said, “Yeah, it happened three times, cost us €45,000.” And then the SEO said, “Yeah, if I can bring you a solution for a few thousand euros that can prevent this ever happening, do you want to have it?” And legal was like, “Yeah, immediately.”
Sören Bendig (14:12):
So then the SEOs would take care of, I don’t know, five or six tests for the legal department, and legal department was paying for the solution.
Keira Davidson (14:20):
That’s so good. I didn’t realize you could use it for looking at basically referencing your database for price as well as what’s being shown on the site, and also for using it for check referencing if specific legal requirements of being met or stuff like that, which is really interesting.
Sören Bendig (14:42):
Yeah. If you use a crawler based testing, it’s the same. Then if you would use like a technical SEO auditing tool, you can analyze everything the crawler sees and can analyze. And if we talk about SEO based tests, then it depends on the solution that you would use if you can utilize additional logic for it.
Sören Bendig (15:08):
So with Audisto, the background is the technical SEO crawling and auditing tool. So then, of course, there’s technical hints and logic that’s SEO focused that you could use to quickly, with a few clicks, generate SEO tests. If you want to do something else that’s eCommerce based and you have some, I don’t know, some elements of your website that you want to test from the HTML source code or something, of course, then you would need to write a test, utilize maybe XPath and RegEx and stuff like that. So that depends a little bit on the solution you would use.
Sören Bendig (15:49):
But I know that there are some SEOs that try to incorporate more and more testing solutions with the development process, and that can work as well. It really depends a little bit on the setup that you have and how many resources do you have. If it’s a developer who needs to work on a test…
Sören Bendig (16:11):
Sometimes we talk with people that want to get into the testing topic, and then the SEO guy gets someone from IT in the discussions. And the IT says, “Yeah, but we have systems and we can do everything in-house.” He’s like, “Yeah, that’s perfect.”
Sören Bendig (16:31):
And then the SEO writes a test plan, the different topics you want to test, and then he gives it to the IT, and the IT says, “Oh, yeah, no, that’s not that easy. Yeah. And some tests are more complicated. Ah, this test takes one month because we don’t have full resources for you, of course.” And then in the end, then the SEO test then would take half a year until it’s up and running.
Keira Davidson (16:59):
Wow.
Sören Bendig (17:00):
And maintaining everything right takes more. And so it really depends a little bit on the resources that you have. It may be it makes more sense to buy a software solution that’s like €500 per month. So it really depends how you do it. And yeah.
Sören Bendig (17:21):
But we see that too few people do proper testing on their websites and their shop. Some do template testing, but even with template testing, there’s lots of issues involved.
Keira Davidson (17:38):
Yeah. I’ve currently got a client doing template testing and it has gone completely wrong. They followed all of Google’s guidelines when briefing their developers, and their developers basically needed a quick fix. So they rolled out the whole template across the whole site. And there’s maybe 5,000 pages, so there’s a B variant across the whole site and there’s the original variant. And we are just having massive headaches because, despite them being canonicalized, Google is preferring to the new template for mobile and is choosing to return that page to smartphone users in the search. So we’re now having to remove that in search console from the URL removal tool.
Sören Bendig (18:35):
Yeah. The main issue I have with template testing is that usually what’s happening is someone decides, “Okay, we want to do some testing and we have different templates we want to test.” And then they take between three and ten example URLs per template and that’s what they’re testing.
Sören Bendig (18:55):
But since no one wants to adjust the test once a week or something… Always people use the most stable products that they have, the evergreen products. They’re always there, that always have been there. And then there’s 10,000 new products the shop launches, and because it’s product data from some sort of party or whatever and it wasn’t cleaned up, it’s totally screwed up. But no one will realize it because they’re just testing this handful of URLs.
Sören Bendig (19:28):
And so the stuff that breaks is the new products, the new stuff that’s happening. And, of course, you could adjust the template testing, but as long as you do some list testing, so to speak. So you have a list of URLs you are testing, you will always miss stuff.
Sören Bendig (19:46):
So I would always suggest to have a pattern based approach and analyze everything. So if I have a shop that has 50,000 products, I don’t want to just test 10 products. I want to test 50,000 products. And the way I would advise to do it is to do a pattern based. So basically you tell the system, “Okay, this URL is a product page,” and the system can recognize it by whatever, div tags, or however technically you can identify it.
Sören Bendig (20:20):
And then you define the status “green” for this product page. You say, “Okay, this product page has certain requirements.” I have SEO requirements concerning the title, the description, index ability and everything. And then maybe also you have other topics that leave the SEO bubble. And the, if you do it crawler based, crawler based testing scales very well. So you can just tell the crawler… If you do a technical zero analysis, you would crawl the full domain as well.
Sören Bendig (20:51):
And so based on this, you do with the testing and the monitoring as well. And if it’s pattern based, for the system itself, it doesn’t matter if 5,000 new products enter the shop or left the shop because it will just analyze all product pages based on the pattern. And then you cannot miss anything.
Keira Davidson (21:18):
Oh, wow. That is so good. That is amazing. So you prevent so many future issues potentially by doing it like that.
Sören Bendig (21:32):
Yeah. The thing is that, how many people do you know that do a relaunch, a website relaunch, and they do some technical SEO audits, and then they do the relaunch. And maybe afterwards they do an audit as well. But you could take the same testing and monitoring approach and really go together with the relaunch process, have like continuous SEO testing on staging and a company staging going to live and everything.
Sören Bendig (21:58):
And so sometimes I’m really surprised how much hardship people put on their own desk because they don’t.. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe they’re not creative enough or maybe sometimes think too small when it comes to scalability and continuous analysis and stuff like that.
Keira Davidson (22:19):
That is so interesting. So you imagine how you could, if you’re doing a relaunch, you could roll out automated testing for that. Are there any other common examples where you’d use it?
Sören Bendig (22:33):
Yeah. Basically everything where you have a dynamic system and it changes. A relaunch, of course, is a good example because maybe you want to have some quality criteria tested on the staging before it goes live because you don’t want to mess it up. And there are many examples of relaunch cases where, by whatever reasons something went wrong, and it hurt. So this is a good example of how to have continuous testing on the staging, because, especially if your set up is more complex. If it’s a small company and you have a few developers and they do it by themselves, then that’s fine. But if we talk about the enterprise case, then usually you have some people sitting in-house, then maybe you have IT development in the UK. Maybe they have a second team in Portugal or Russia or something, and then they have an extra agency, and then it’s like so many moving parts.
Keira Davidson (23:34):
Yeah.
Sören Bendig (23:35):
And just to keep focus on the bird’s eye perspective is quite hard. And then something releases because, of course, time is of the issue, and so you can, of course, accommodate that and basically every case.
Sören Bendig (23:52):
The thing is that many companies that never did testing and monitoring, they say, “Yeah, but this cannot happen to us. Nah, we don’t need it.z’ And of course, this is if you want to do proper testing and monitoring, it’s not something where you can just take some software solution and magically press two buttons and everything will be covered. That’s not how it works usually. There are some solutions out there that come with a set of basic and very simple tests. But if you want to do it right, you need to create a proper test plan and you need to define what’s the status green for different page.
Sören Bendig (24:36):
And then in addition, it comes down to how much experience do you have. Just as an example, for a test, then you have some solution to test, okay, there needs to be an SEO test for a title. So, of course, the title needs to be there. But that’s not a good test because it’s too simple. If you want to, just for the title, if you want to test for it, of course, you want to test, the title needs to be there. So it’s not supposed to be missing, but it’s also not supposed to be empty. And the title is also not supposed to be outside the head, and the title is supposed to occur just once and not twice or thrice. And it is not supposed to be too short and not supposed to be too long. So you realize, “Okay, just a simple thing like the title, if I want to do a proper test for it, I need to think big.” And I need to realize, “Okay, what’s the characteristics, the quality characteristics?”
Keira Davidson (25:35):
I didn’t realize, for example, like you just mentioned there for a title tag, that there’d be so many different things that would be required to be considered when planning out the test.
Keira Davidson (25:47):
So do you know, is it just SEOs and developers that work together to do these tests? Or does someone exist as a specialist automated tester? Is that a thing?
Sören Bendig (26:04):
You have many companies that have QA resources, but usually they’re not focused on the SEO topics. So the SEOs that we get into discussion about testing and monitoring usually are the ones that realize, “Okay, we have a complex system by whatever legacy reasons and stuff breaks and breaks and breaks, and we need to do all the manual work.”
Sören Bendig (26:30):
So back to what I mentioned in the beginning, you have a technical SEO specialist, and he’s doing minor tickets for the developers. Makes no sense. Makes no sense for the company and makes no sense for the SEO.
Sören Bendig (26:45):
So then they realize there must be a better way. There must be a way to automate it because this ticket was the same topic I’ve wrote it for the tenth time. Does not make sense for anyone. So that’s one example.
Sören Bendig (26:59):
Another example is sometimes you have SEO cases where, for example, they have a business case where the company says, “Yeah, it’s working very well for the three countries we are already in. We decided we want to go in 10 more countries and copy the business case into different countries. And then, yeah, but we do not want to hire more people to do it.”
Sören Bendig (27:23):
And then the SEO team says, “Yeah, but the content is written by different people and so many moving parts, also for the other countries, stuff breaks. And our team still has the same size.” So then we need to do some automation because it also makes no sense.
Keira Davidson (27:42):
Yeah. That makes sense. So for example, if a client was wanting to expand in different regions to ensure that it’s being implemented successfully and there’s no glaring areas or issues that are… What’s the word? That are discovered. You could automate testing and monitoring to see how successful it’s been and to pick up on any issues after the implementation.
Sören Bendig (28:12):
Yeah. And, of course, if someone had a negative impact on the business, then they are quite eager to prevent it again. That’s what I was mentioning, that some people say, “We do not need it.” And then you have others that it cost them €40,000 because it just took a while until they realized something broke.So they they’re really quick to get a solution to prevent it.
Sören Bendig (28:42):
But yeah, it, so it depends a little bit on do you have a history where this kind of automation could be worse to you because you save money, be it from the technical side or the legal part or the SEO that says, “Yeah, we need to automate stuff,” because the specialist doing scrubbing really simple tickets for the developers that it just does not make sense.
Sören Bendig (29:14):
And when it comes to the test itself, like you said, that the complexity of, for example, a title test or something, I think that’s something that depends a little bit on the technical SEO approach people take. Many people do audits with Screaming Frog, for example, and Screaming Frog is a great tool and everyone is using it. But of course, there is other solutions that go much more into technical detail. And so it depends a little bit on what you do. And then usually if someone starts to use solutions where it’s more technical tests and details, usually you find a lot of stuff and anomalies that you have no idea that exists.
Keira Davidson (29:59):
Yeah, I bet the data at the end of it would be really eye opening because you probably have found lots of anomalies or things that you didn’t even know existed.
Sören Bendig (30:10):
You always need to decide then, is it an error you focus to fix this, or, I don’t care, but at least it needs to be a decision made by you and not by chance.
Keira Davidson (30:24):
Yeah. Yeah. You’ve got the data then to prove it. And you can make, like you said, make decisions based off that to see whether it would actually have an impact.
Sören Bendig (30:35):
Yeah. And data could also be important to drive this topic internally more. I can only speak from the point of view from Audisto, but I assume other solutions can offer this as well. But even without the monitoring, if you use a technical SEO crawler to analyze the site, there’s also many solutions where you can use scheduling and do automated crawling.
Sören Bendig (31:06):
So makes no sense to just crawl every now and then. But if it’s from a business point of view, it’s important for me, then at least I would say, “Okay, I want to crawl, I don’t know, once a week at least.” And then you have some kind of documentation for all the KPIs. And if something breaks or something goes wrong and then you have the data, and then you could take the data internally, maybe even you saw it fast enough that you are the first person to raise the hand and say, “Okay, yeah, stuff broke.”
Sören Bendig (31:37):
But else even from a retro perspective, you could take the data and say, “Okay, we could prevent this. If it’s important to you, we can start developing a process to prevent it in the future.” And then in addition, especially for the SEO, get many of the minor tasks out of the way, because you automate them.
Keira Davidson (32:00):
Yeah. And do you know the crawling, is it local crawling or is it cloud crawling?
Sören Bendig (32:08):
It depends on the solution that you would use.
Keira Davidson (32:10):
Oh, okay.
Sören Bendig (32:11):
For Audisto, it’s cloud crawling. I think that if you want to do proper testing and monitoring, of course you could develop something on your own with a local crawler that’s running on your machine, and I am quite sure some people do, but when it comes to this kind of solution, there’s always the buy or make decision that you have to do. I know many agencies, for example, that started to create their own crawler solutions or analysis and stuff like that because they had someone technically capable to do it.
Keira Davidson (32:51):
Yeah.
Sören Bendig (32:52):
And then at some point, because it was just one person and he’s sick and something needs to get fixed, the process stops working or stuff like that. And in addition, usually someone who is doing it more like a hobby, most likely never the real amount of hours that goes into developing something on your own is like calculated properly.
Keira Davidson (33:18):
Yeah.
Sören Bendig (33:19):
Especially in technical SEO, I mean, it depends a little bit if someone’s really interested and he wants to do it and it’s fun and the company does it more as a bonus to this person, then the company needs to judge the risks. If this person leaves the company, or if he gets sick, is in the hospital or something like that, can we still use it? Can it break?
Keira Davidson (33:44):
That’s a good point.
Sören Bendig (33:44):
But make or buy should usually be a strategic decision.
Keira Davidson (33:51):
I would never have considered it from that point. Because, yeah, it’s sort of normal for people to be ill or people to leave companies. And if a sole individual has created that tool and then leaves, it could mean that the tool’s then redundant.
Sören Bendig (34:09):
Yeah. Or you need to put additional stress on an employee. I know of one case where it was an in-house team and they were maintaining an old solution, but like the example, it was just one person. And then he was on holidays and things broke and they couldn’t work with it. So then they pressured him during his holidays, in the evenings when the family was asleep, to two nights, work to fix it.
Keira Davidson (34:36):
Oh, wow.
Sören Bendig (34:38):
And of course, yeah. But, yeah, it really depends. I know both sides and, yeah, it can work both, of course.
Keira Davidson (34:48):
I never realized that how sort of automated testing and monitoring could be used in technical SEO. It all felt always a bit above my head, whereas since speaking with you today, it’s kind of made the topic less complex and a lot easier to understand, which is really good. So I really appreciate that. Thank you.
Sören Bendig (35:15):
Yeah. I think we just covering the basics. Of course, we could discuss this for three hours and every different part in detail.
Keira Davidson (35:23):
Of course.
Sören Bendig (35:24):
But I think that sometimes people lack the fantasy. What could you do is automation and also the testing and monitoring, what can be done and how can you use it?
Sören Bendig (35:37):
And because it’s so flexible, what you can do is, I know many SEO teams that use it in a really flexible basis, even, I don’t know, start some kind of creative sim content analysis, because they use XPath and then they count elements on a page or something.
Sören Bendig (36:00):
So when it’s a testing approach and the solution is flexible enough, you can create test for everything that you can imagine, as long as it’s technical, from technical point of view, it’s possible to test it.
Keira Davidson (36:16):
Yeah. So it really is endless, which is really good to know. And I definitely think it’s something that I should bear in mind for future when, for example, doing migrations or relaunches, I think it’d be really interesting to see the results with it.
Sören Bendig (36:35):
Yeah. It goes not so deep into testing details, but we recently released a guide for relaunch monitoring. It’s more like strategic project management plan, how to do it, but if you or anyone’s interested, can go in the guide section at audisto.com. There’s a checklist there as well and goes in a similar direction, I would say.
Keira Davidson (37:02):
That sounds amazing. Thank you for that. I’ll definitely take a look at that after this. Thank you.
Keira Davidson (37:10):
I think we managed to cover the topic pretty well. I’ve definitely learned a lot. And I think from here, I need to just spend some time, but further understanding the topic now that it’s makes sense to me. So I really appreciate you joining me today and hopefully other people have liked it as well. So thank you very much.
Sören Bendig (37:33):
You’re welcome.
Keira Davidson (37:33):
That’s great. I’ll speak to you soon.
Sören Bendig (37:38):
Yeah, Keira, and thanks for having me and happy to discuss any findings that you have or any questions. So just let me know.
Keira Davidson (37:48):
Thank you very much. Thank you.
